04.15.2009+-+Notes

=**CLASS DISCUSSION NOTES**= //Below are partial notes from our April 15 workshop. Feel free to comment or add to the conversation in the DISCUSSION thread (see Discussion tab above)//.

1. Ideological incompatibility existed - colonists were fighting for freedom at the same time securing the slavery practice 2. Abolition of slavery was an impossibility given the times and situations of the 1780s 3. Struggle was less about slavery itself and more of a power struggle about representation in Congress

__What could have been done differently?__
1. Notion of the "greater good" was a republican idea - the greater good being the creation of a strong government 2. Let the slave states walk away and create a strong nation without them 3. Many people thought not much could have been done differently given the context of the time //However, the positive that came out of the document was that it created a strong union and presidency that could fix itself by the 1860s//

The revolution was not an elitist movement; it supported the common man, as evidenced by their willingness to fight against their own army. The revolution was a "mosaic of many different experiences;" i.e., it meant different things to different people.

1. Three-fifths clause; a "poison pill"? 2. Main concern is to unite the colonies against Britain; issue of slavery is pushed down "the totem pole" 3. Uncertain future: issue of slavery can be revisited/debated later 4. Slavery was institutional to both northerners and southerners; slavery is livelihood 5. Founders - did any have a "guilty conscience?" "Death bed compromise" 6. Amendment process reflected 7. Did the South really need the North? Economically? Politically?

=__Was the Revolution Radical?__=

Regarding slavery: General view:
 * slavery would have ended on its own eventually
 * hypocrisy to have slaves; it went against the ideals of the Revolution
 * The issue of slavery was not radical. Slavery in the Constituion was a compromise to ensure republicanism and federalism.
 * Slavery was reactionary for white males
 * Radical is an extreme political idea
 * 3/5 Compromise gave the South a political advantage
 * Loyalists were 1/3 (estimated) of the population; 1/3 was ambivalent, 1/3 of the population was for the Revolution (minotiry status = radical)
 * The Revolution was radical politically and socially: break from monarchy, social equality

=**__Wood's Thesis__**=

Causes of the Revolution Weaknesses in Wood's argument
 * Economic Issues: debt from French and Indian War; Who should pay the debt? Who should pay the price of protection?
 * Perceived Injustices: taxation, representation, social hierarchy
 * Self-Interest
 * Religious Influence
 * mob mentality missing
 * Loyalists' story missing

=**__How was the Revolution Transformative?__**=


 * Planted "seeds" for later social movements (abolition, women's rights)
 * Economic policies will be used to ensure peace (capitalist growth, seeking new markets, geographic expansion)
 * Education - need for an educated populous to ensure democratic decisions are made in the best interests of the nation
 * Religion - need for a moral populous to ensure democratic chioces are guided by ethical guidelines
 * Creation of an enduring document and a strong central government
 * Populism - power from the "bottom-up"; need for campaigns and parties
 * Sealed the fates of the Native Americans

=**__What could have been done differently?__**=


 * Limit slaves areas (Northwest Ordinance)
 * Compensation for slavery
 * Immigration quotas for slaves based on earlier year (1690)
 * Written sets of rules for the ethical treatment of slaves
 * 3/5 sliding scale -- eventually ending slavery counting toward representation